DSM: RE: Re: Judicial Committee and School Meeting


Joseph Moore (joseph@ivorycc.com)
Mon, 5 Mar 2001 19:43:00 -0800


-----Original Message-----
From: Marko Koskinen [mailto:marko@vapaus.net]

And when we think the responsibility issue, there's no need for one to
"take responsibility of one's actions", because that's inevitable.
Everything one does effects the system and because the actor is part of
the system, everything one does affects oneself. The idea of
responsibility is probably due to the idea of seperation of man and
environment. Such dualism is illusionary and shouldn't be used as a
cause for action.

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I'm curious how this would work, given the (the at least seeming) limits to the human capacity to understand the world - basically, I would think that it would be hard to justify holding one's self or anyone else completely responsible for things they don't understand - and, for me, the number of things I don't understand dwarfs the things I think I do. There seems to be a real limit to responsibility, if only because of time limits.

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> What anyone wants to get to be, or is, can be up to them.

I totally disagree (if I understand you correctly). As I wrote in another post, human consciousness is just a cultural product and the free will is actually very limited depending on our physical and social environment. I would say free will is also illusionary, because in every situation we choose the best alternative we have for that situation and the alternatives are constructed using the knowledge we have. Thus, in any situation we have total of one choice.

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It seems to me that you've caught yourself in a logic loop here - if human
consciousness is 'just' a cultural product, how do we change? Specifically,
all or almost all people involved in the Sudbury Valley model had some close
approximation of a traditional classroom education - yet, we manage to want
something different. There's something else at play in human consciousness -
free will, human nature, who knows what - that permits some people at least
to be more than a mere product of their culture. Or do you think not? How
did you come to want something different?

I'm a little bummed with the vigor and relish with which people have been beating on the model the last day or 2 - not that the model and the people on the list can't take, of course they can, but that so much of it seems so abstracted from the actual experience of the kids in the school. Nobody's bossing them around. Run-ins with the JC are few and far between for most kids, and the resolution mostly amiable. It doesn't work perfectly all the time, but comes out looking very good stood up against any real-world alternatives.

Finally, the experience of interacting freely with other human beings is *the* great prize or result - the books and woods and art rooms pale almost to insignificance in comparison. This freedom and what it means to the 'soul' transcends culture, in my opinion.

Joseph



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