RE: DSM: Simple solution

Scott Gray (
Sat, 9 Dec 2000 10:12:31 -0500 (EST)

Now, be fair Joe,

Public schools and truancy laws were the inventions of politicians. In
fact, science has given all _sorts_ of ammunition to those who are opposed
to traditional schools...

The notion that people are a "blank slate" is a political notion used
alternately to give credence to the idea of Aristocratic power or violent
Utopian reform, while the notion of inborn tendencies of people to unfold
naturally into _people_ has been shown repeatedly in scientific literature
(particularly in developmental psychology).

Good science can be used to dispel the myth that one group can know enough
to design a perfect learning environment for another group.

Good science may only paint a foggy picture of what goes on in any human
mind... But good science allows us to see just how _little_ we are
capable of knowing about any person's internal thoughts feelings and needs
-- and it is certainly a much more _accurate_ picture than the crisp clear
and false picture of how children learn painted by polticians like Horace
Mann and the Massachusetts Board of Education.

On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Joe Jackson wrote:

> I believe humanity is inborn. My children were filled with it when they
> came out and will turn out filled with it if they are not messed with;
> that's why I wanted Fairhaven.
> Science doesn't have the foggiest notion of what's happening in the minds of
> infants, but the hubris of science forces it to pretend it does, using
> "research" (there's no hard data on the inner workings of people, only case
> studies). Additionally, what "science" has come up with is our current
> public school system.
> By the way, there is LOTS of role modeling going on in the schools. It's
> just not the kind I'm thinking you're hoping for (staff members extrusively
> trying to teach students certain attitudes and behaviors)
> -Joe
> > >> This aspect
> > >> "humanity" is
> > >> not inborn and has to be modeled.
> >
> > on 12/7/00 1:54 PM, Joe Jackson at wrote:
> > > Robert,
> > > As I could not disagree with this statement more, and insofar
> > as this idea
> > > is the fundamental basis for your feelings regarding the
> > inadequacy of the
> > > model, I believe that I have discovered the root of our fundamental
> > > disagreement about what these schools should do for students.
> > >
> > > I am glad we have so much that we agree on!
> > >
> > > -Joe
> > >
> > Inborn in humans is the ability to be nourished and to be
> > stimulated by the
> > five senses and by some sort of heart connection not understood.
> > Given these
> > we also have the ability to evolve. This evolution is changes in brain
> > structure, body development, emotional development, and,
> > according to recent
> > science, changes in the genetic code. Yes, we evolve genetically due to
> > environmental input! (Now we'll nerver know which came first, the
> > chicken or
> > the egg?).
> >
> > Inborn in humans is the possibility to evolve. This is huge. The limits of
> > evolution are set by nutrition and stimulation. If parents nourish and
> > evolve their own genetics that is a good start. Next, they can nourish and
> > stimulate the infant in the womb. The newborn needs the stimulus of loving
> > touch and warmth and gentle words, and a lack of other stimuli. After this
> > the child needs extreem variety of stimulation in a context of
> > joy and love
> > so to open a wide variety of potentials into our world. At age eleven the
> > potentials focus that applied intelligence be developed in behalf of the
> > given environment and one's interests. Aspects of material survival then
> > become so fluid as to be second nature (not daily worry). Creativity is
> > given open reins. As a person thinks, so he is -- possibility.
> >
> > A child raised by wolves would not speak, maybe not even walk. A child
> > raised by nervous parents will walk and talk but may never fully
> > understand
> > peace and love and cooperation. A child raised by a loving world community
> > may speak twenty languages, be in complete peace, move without hesitation
> > into continued improvement of self as relative to a wholesome world, and
> > cooperate with others with a charm and grace that would befuddle us lizard
> > brains. This person's joy and excitement for life could power a creativity
> > lightyears advanced from our own. Imagine Einstein, Jesus and Cleopatra
> > holding hands as they skip down the street with the students from
> > a Sudbury
> > school. They are not going anywhere. Within, they know they have arrived.
> > They found self because of who they are with.
> >
> > It's all a matter of models,
> > robert
> >
> >
> >

--Scott David Gray
reply to:
In spite of oppressors, in spite of false leaders, in spite
of labor's own lack of understanding of its needs, the cause
of the worker continues onward. Slowly his hours are
shortened, giving him leisure to read and to think. Slowly
his standard of living rises to include some of the good and
beautiful things of the world. Slowly the cause of his
children becomes the cause of all. His boy is taken from the
breaker, his girl from the mill. Slowly those who create
the wealth of the world are permitted to share it. The
future is in labor's strong, rough hands.

-- Mary Harris "Mother" Jones

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